The New York Rapid-transit Subway

78 DISCUSSION ON NEW YORK SUBWAY. [Minutes of Sir G. Bartley, traffic; but he thought an impossible task was being attempted in con- nection with the fares charged on the lines. If the lines were to be extended they must be made to pay. There was a spirit abroad which led people to expect to get everything for nothing ; that was really the whole trouble. If anybody could make the tubes pay, he was sure it was Sir George Gibb. But whatever a tube cost, it was absolutely impossible to make it pay with the present system of fares. He thought it was a grievous thing for London to see the traffic-managers competing one witli another in such a way as to prevent the extension of the various enterprises. He could not conceive of anybody em- barking his money in further extensions of tube railways. Personally he preferred the shallow subway to the deep tube, and lie thought everybody would prefer it were it not for the question of cost; but whether the lines were deep or whether they were shallow, the fact remained that the cost could not be covered with the fares as they were now. What with the competition of the omnibuses, and of the tramways at the public expense, it seemed to him that London was handicapped very largely by the attempt to carry the traffic on unremunerative systems. He remembered one of the leading lights on the Metropolitan line advocating strongly one uniform fare—he believed about Id.—on the Underground railway from Ealing to Aldgate; of course that was an impossibility. People would not pay 4d. to go from Victoria to Westminster Bridge; they would simply take a penny omnibus. He did not quite agree witli Sir George Gibb about New York with regard to omnibuses and tramways, because there were an immense number of tramways, in addition to the elevated railways. He believed that the more facilities were given for traffic, the more traffic was obtained. When in New York he was told that the tramway was made first, and when the elevated railway was projected the tramway opposed it. When the elevated railway was made it was found that the tramway did more business with the railway on the top of it than it had done before ; and when the subway was proposed, the tramway petitioned for it, because it said it would increase the tramway-traffic. There- fore, if only the lines could be made at a remunerative rate, with the fares so adjusted as to give a proper return for the capital outlay, lie did not see why the present systems should not be extended. But as long as there was competition between trams, omnibuses, trains, tubes, and subways, and everybody was trying to get everytliing for nothing, he thought there would be a retardation of one of the most important movements in London, namely, the provision of greater facilities for travel. In spite of all Sir George Gibb’s efforts—and everybody was thankful to him for the work he