The Madsen Machine Gun

29 The Madsen [6 June 1918] Gun. 30 ship and see what she is like at sea. The same thing applies to the machine-gun. I I hope my friend will assure me that the military authorities are going to the trial. That is what I want to know. The last' point I raise is this. Will the Government send to G.H.Q. in France one of these guns with people who understand , the gun, and have fired it in the trial, and then let the Commander-in-Chief make a report about the gun? Though I appre- ciate the difficulties of the Government, I am satisfied that considering the advan- tages of utility, of ending the war, and of giving our men the very best weapon that can be manufactured-—my noble friend spoke of another gun; I know the other gun which he thinks is going to be improved; it is a good gun, but it is not nearly so good as the Madsen—I am satis- fied, I say, that the report of the Com- mander-in-Chief will be of such a cha- racter that all the difficulties which now face the Government would be surmounted. I would guarantee that if the matter were faced properly you would get certain numbers of the gun into the ranks in six .months, not a year. That is my opinion. And remember that every gun—we ought to call it a rifle—every machine-rifle given to a man means the equivalent of the fire of quite half a battalion. In all the circumstances I hope that my noble friend will answer the questions I have put to him. I do not wish to divide your Lordships’ House, but I want these two things carried out in the direction i have indicated. Lord ELPHINSTONE: My Lords, I rise only for one brief moment because I think the noble and gallant Lord, possibly un- wittingly, has given, in his references to a year, rather an unfair interpretation of one of the remarks I made. Just now I understood him to say that I had prac- tically inferred that the war was not going on for a year. I never suggested ; anything of the kind. Lord BERESFORD: No, I did not. Lord ELPHINSTONE: The only time I mentioned a year was when I said that very optimistic estimates had been made as to the length of time required. Some said three months, and I said that, in the opinion of the Ministry of Munitions, it was much more likely to be a year before there was any sensible output. Lord BERESFORD: I am very sorry; I meant to say that. Lord ELPHINSTONE: As to the other point, he criticised the question of train- ing, which was also commented on by Lord Stair. I did not rack my brains to find this as a reason. This is one of the reasons given to me by the military autho- rities at the War Office. I merely informed your Lordships of it. Lord BERESFORD: Hear, Hear. The Lord PRIVY SEAL (The Earl of Crawford): My Lords, I should be sorry if the noble and gallant Admiral thought it necessary to divide on a Motion which he has not put on the Paper. From the general point of view of procedure, I think that is a little undesirable. The Notice he has read to us to-night is in different terms from that of which he was good enough to give my noble friend private notice. But I think it is probably quite possible to meet the cases he has put forward. Substantially he asks for two things, and I think I am in a position to satisfy him on each. The Army Council agrees that experts, their experts, shall investigate this gun fully—fully. That meets the noble Lord’s plea on the first point. Lord BERESFORD: That means trials. The Earl of CRAWFORD: You cannot investigate without trials. Lord BURNHAM: And immediately? The Earl of CRAWFORD: I will add »and immediately« if the noble Lord thinks that necessary. I am sorry he should think it necessary. Secondly, the military authorities in France shall give an oppor- tunity-—shall I add an »immediate« oppor- tunity?—of examining the gun on the spot: Viscount GALWAY: My Lords, the noble Earl did not take any notice of the que-